The stupidity of some people... I'ts almost enough to inspire sympathy...
Also, Erotica1 sounds bent.

By bent, I obviously mean "crooked".

I have many friends :)
Would you like to be one?
Sorry, DENIED!

Just ban them. Nobody will miss them and the majority of the community will certainly agree with it.

or thinking you are supporting.

I can give you what you deserve.
Do you want it?

That, or some of us need to read between the lines. Either one works.

Because if you somehow think that an enormously overblown reaction to a teenage suicide in the 70s actually had anything to do with TSR's financial woes of the time, (instead of, you know, putting out a large number of poor selling products like Terrible Swift Sword, which took 3 hours to assemble, and 5 to play) then I have a bridge to sell you.

Out of game. Just as the recording was :)

So, I just went and listened to the whole thing. I admit, I LoL'd, and without guilt after the 'victim' demonstrated that he is racist. I didn't hear one person say "I am under 18".

I did hear a guy say he was married (suggesting he was grown) between threatening people, slamming keyboards around and other crazy crap.

As a black man (don't let the white girl avatar fool you lol), I'm more offended by the 'victims' racial abuse (brought on when someone else identified himself as Afro-Canadian) than I am anything Erotica did. It is the 'victim' who should be banned on that basis alone if anyone is.

I guess all these people who think in game scamming is bad think in game racism is ok.....

Although , again, though I was appalled by the victims racism, I did lol again when he told the one guy to shut up and let him speak to his 'Masta'.....

Failing that, play this recording out loud at the next FanFest and see what the assembled community actually thinks of this.

Why on earth would it be that?

Because people will be so disgusted by it that they leave the event?

Yes, I agree.

I think you should be very careful how you choose to treat people.

You are blaming the victim in the recording.

Check

On one side we have those who want Erotica1 and his cronies buried in a digital shallow grave.

On the other side, we have those wishing to hoist Erotic1 up on their shoulders as a hero to freedom.

Perhaps, just perhaps, there's a middle ground? Where we can discuss the underlying issue, rather than this single incident? We're all adults, and dealing with the issue of 'potential' cyber bullying is very much an adult issue. So how about we all get off our respective soapboxes, myself included, and start discussing, as adults, this issue and the ramifications that any potential decisions and actions taken regarding the "emergent gameplay" vs "cyber-bullying" debate?

Same thing as you blaming the victim in the recordings.

Sorry, you cant have it both ways.

Checkmate, again.

Simply amazing that people can ignore or excuse the ugly racism and death threats because $20 in space pixels was lost in a gamble.

Not my problem or fault if you poke, prod, humiliate and grief people who might turn out to be mentally unstable individuals who suddenly might show up IRL in your face, doorstep or an event you are attending.

Im not responsible for your actions, or theirs.

Ill just read about it in the papers and think to myself "Well, they had it coming. Bound to happen sooner or later".

Oh. You mean like Erotica1 revelling in the misfortune of his victims?

Hows that for hypocrisy now?

In what country is calling for people to kill themselves against the law? Please link.

Nope.

Because I have not conducted myself in any fashion that would warrant a ban, or even consideration of one :)

Erotica1 has. Repeatedly and with extremely compelling evidence in heaps.

Go ahead. Play this recording over loudspeakers at the next Fanfest, maybe even at the unveiling of the Monument.
I double dare you. Certainly the recording is a shining example of EVEs community and would do great honor and justice to that event, dont you think?

Thanks for admitting his guilt :)

CHECKMATE, again.

My god, you are TERRIBLE at this.

So here we face a society that believes of it's superiority over other people and cultures. A society that pretends to wage a war for higher curses like democracy, freedom of speech, darwinism or human rights. But i say this is not the case. You choose to wage war for those who gain from it. You wage war and feel offended by the fact that people try to defend them self, no matter how desperate they act.

You ignore the fact that you created your enemy.

Or property. Nor does the other person have to qualify as "innocent" in order to legally justify physical force being used in their defense.

If that won't work, i sure hope Erotica and his friends falls on the wrong victim. They 1 that will actually finds them IRL.
Isnt that RISK VS ISK enough?

To those of you who have expressed that in game activity merits real life violence, to hell with you. Literally. You're morally bankrupt, and you've replaced morality with this caricature of morals prioritizing hurt feelings on the internet above the welfare and safety of actual human beings.

A hands off approach didn't work too well for Cain. When someone asks you "are you your brother's keeper," there is only one correct answer, "yes."

Guff

If rilling up people to commit suicide in a few minutes speech is a big nono, then why is this hours long grieving & torture of a fellow player and human being, not? It's equally disgusting.

Tell me more, please. Only, somewhere private. And wear something sexy while you do it.

I'm wondering what all these defenders of Erotica would say should the victim in question take it to the extreme and harm himself or family in any way. It's still just a game right?

Its like swatting aside a whining mosquito.

I can't believe how many people in this community think that they are the righteous crusaders of Darwin's will.
How on earth can you arrogate yourself to decide who should be on "your" internet and who not?

That's a horrible comparison.

One is just playing the game and its mechanics. The other is emotionally grinding a person down with absolutely no in-game benefit. Humiliating and insulting a person for the sheer reason of 'lolz'.

Yeah, no.

None of your examples come even close to what Erotica goes out of his way to do, try again.

This is the only rule change I would support. Making the game 18+, it's a double win both for the kids who should be playing outside, and for those of us who don't want annoying kids around.

the more vulnerable players of the game

protect the credibility of the whole Eve community.

Will it take an event like those recent chat room bullying-suicides (and probably the subsequent closure of Eve)

CCP need to properly police and moderate (which is different to consorship) their community for the benefit of the whole community.

A minor can't give consent, no matter how much whatever they say sounds like it.

So the elderly and mentally infirm who fall fall these scams?

Did they just deserve it, was it their fault?

There's only one major factor needed to judge where the line needs to be drawn, shall i tell you what it is as you appear to be devoid of realizing it yourself, or you do know what it is but prefer to pretend you dont just to provoke other posters.

It's Morality.

Please, just stop this. At least pick a different metaphor.....

What makes Erotica1's behaviour ethically equivalent to consensual gay sex? I would love it if you would spell out your reasoning for that before continuing to use this metaphor.

Injecting a politically and religiously charged topic into the discussion is not helping; it is trolling.

It serves no purpose in the discussion other than to make people angry.

Malcanis trying to inject highly charge political and religious topics into the discussion is all I responded to. It is not worth discussing.

I've developed an opinion that all the perps should be identified at hardware and geological location.

One of many definitions, but the one I prefer at the moment, would be Kant's Categorical Imperative :

"Act only according to that maxim whereby you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law without contradiction."[1]

Kant has a certain reputation for obscurity, which is certainly justified, so if it isn't immediately apparent what he means, that could be paraphrased somewhat loosely as "do unto others as you would want to be done to".

There's a nice page on Wikipedia that discusses this in more detail.

Everywhere you look you see a kind of societal collapse taking place.

You're the kind of guy who'd argue for a rapist to go free on a technicality then. Right? Because observation of arbitrary rules should trump justice?

Our country is controlled by people who fall over themselves to take offence where none was meant, who have a hard on for banning activities and opinions they don't like. They're called Guardian readers, and they are the esablishment.

so Malcanis is advocating for out of game legal action now? That's news to me.

TBH 99% of the UKs politicians are out of touch trust fund morons, regardless of their political affiliations. The Daily Mail itself is pretty much Fox News printed on paper.

We're pretty screwed when Boris is the only politician who is worth giving a damn about.

I am not talking about court. I am not talking about law. "Due process" is a fiction of fairness, provided when it is convenient to do so, and denied when it is not.

We don't need 12 jurors to hear this case. Let the wider world listen to the recording as Ripard suggested, and let them judge Eve and CCP for it.

I am sure CCP can get Malcanis to volunteer to head up PR on this, where he can explain to people disgusted by this behavior that it's within the rules, and that Erotica1 deserves his day in court. That will be compelling for sure.

You have not been advocating a middle ground.

In this situation, there is no middle ground. This is not just about scamming. Scam are a part of eve, that will not change.

This is about players standing against the vitriolic and toxic nature of certain groups in eve who strive to ensure hate and spite are promoted so they get their 'kicks.'

This is not a call for a themepark. This is a call to return civility to the game.

that's terrible advice.
if you're a child being bullied, kick the kid in the knackers and make sure you're out of there by the time he gets up again.

1984 was a book about the absolute bottom of human social behavior and manipulation.

Maybe choose a different metaphor to make your particular case.

Missing Persons has you covered:

Do you hear me
Do you care
Do you hear me
Do you care

My lips are moving and the sound's coming out
The words are audible but I have my doubts
That you realize what has been said
You look at me as if you're in a daze
It's like the feeling at the end of the page
When you realize you don't know what you just read

What are words for when no one listens anymore
What are words for when no one listens
What are words for when no one listens it's no use talkin at all

personally i would advice the victim to make a official complaint to his/her local police.

I cancelled one of my money-paying subscriptions in protest at CCP tolerating cyber-bullying.

I encourage others to do the same.

We can live without that 4th dictor/cyno alt. CCP cant live without our money.

Time to make a stand and clean up EVE.

Thank you for highlighting relevant parts of my post and by means of your terrible posting, adding weight to my argument.

You are underestimating the severity of this situation.

Extortion and blackmail are a federal felony in the US.

Yes, I'm for real. Look em up yourself.

Did you really think that there are no people playing EVE capable of committing a felony OUTSIDE of EVE?

It applies completely, because it happened OUTSIDE OF EVE.

Considering in game isk can be turned into plex\Aur etc which is worth RL cash and using plex u may "pay" sub and considering there is some RL cash value to isk in EVE you point is invalid.

Ive said it multiple times to multiple people in this thread.

The Mittani + Fan fest.

It happened, he broke no rules, yet he got a temp ban and was forced from his position. That was the right thing to do in that situation, its also my opinion that Erotica should have all his assets/isk removed and also receive a ban, but i have morals so i guess im in the minority.

blah

Much as I hate to break your little trollish bubble, but as has been noted many times by those coming to E1's defence, said verbal outburst by the victim happened OUTSIDE Eve. Therefore no EULA violation. You can't have it both ways...

It does make it clear that you cannot offer to transfer in game items. But that is too broad! Well obviously CCP has written it broadly so that they can ban people when they want to. The whole question of banning comes down to whether CCP wants to ban, not whether they can find part of the EULA to ban them with.

For my part I will consider Erotica1 to be involved in offers (although probably not transfers) of in game items in trade for humiliating singing for his sick pleasure.

Or CCP takes it as a wake-up call to modify the TOS/EULA.

Mr Epeen

Play EVE the internet spaceships game, not Teamspeak the creepy humiliation game.

Your so subtle as you sit there and mine your rocks aint ya?

So where do you stand on racism and RL death threats? You seem to have missed that part.

Good humor although I don't think I like the creepy humiliation game in either format. I guess if you want that sort of thing you can always give money to Erotica1!

The ultimate payout might be a roundhouse kick to the face from some random aggrieved loony at Fanfest.

Hey look, a psychopath sadist talks about civility. So Erotica tell me, hows it going? You humiliated any more vulnerable people today, maybe made one or two cry? You would like that wouldnt you.

Why do we have to play on a fair playing field all of a sudden by punishing the victim? Equality among people doesn't even exist. How can that be seen as an important value in this case?

****** has yet to make an appearance.

I would laugh and applaud if someone kicked Erotica1 in the face at a Fanfest.
Nothing illegal about laughing or applauding, nor is it against EULA.

I would also laugh and applaud if Erotica1 was banned from the game.
Again, nothing illegal about laughing or applauding, nor is it against EULA.

Wouldn't you?

Read you, daft cow.

Notice the phrase "its not illegal".
So yes, it is ok in real life.

Laughing and applauding it is not illegal.

Which is what I said.

Reading is HAAARRD.

He did state he would not kick, he just stated he would laugh. You are allowed to laugh, you're even encouraged to laugh irl.

Bad reading is however frowned upon, both in real life as on the internet.

Some people, mostly those grasping at straws to defend the erstwhile E1, are using some of that verbal diatribe to justify everything E1 did. They're misguided at best, complicit at worst.

The audio recording is horrible. I challenge anyone who finds this behavior acceptable to play the recording to your mom, or your wife, and then proudly say to that person, "I support this behavior."

CCP has provided Erotica1 with a soapbox, that soapbox needs to be removed. I leave the 'how' to CCP.

Fair. I should have chosen more gender neutral language.

british accent.

any other questions you need answering?

[

I certainly hope that CCP does not end scamming, ganking, bumping, or even being 'scum' in game. I don't think that is the problem being highlighted here.

I certainly hope that CCP does consider methods of improving sportsmanship within the community. Where is the good fight? "Good try dude, but you were scammed better luck next time."

Its pretty clear what has to be done really.

sadists only understand pain, and they forfeit protections of society by abusing others.

In my high school, this sort of thing was deal with like this: guy would be found, cornered, and beaten to a pulp to tech him a lesson in manners. I did this a couple of times to bullies back in the day. It works.

If it has to devolve to high school level, If CCP wont step in and curb this **** like adults, I will not condemn whomever metes out street justice.

Simple as that.

In the area I live in (Robin Hood land) we hear such colloquialisms as 'ayup me duck' and 'nowt wrong we that'

i dont care.

It just means you were a soft southern sh*te for 4 years.

Lol. go for it ramona-the-sadist-supporter/condoner. I wonder, when your classmates were abused by bullies, what did you do? pretend it didint happen? side with the bullies?

I didint. I taught them a lesson. And what Erotica did to that poor dude is bullying. And you know what? bullies need to be stopped in their tracks. And if it takes unpleasant action, so be it.

Ahh you are one of those very northern English pretenders.

Takes one to know one.

And yes, bullying is one of those cases where fighting fire with fire works. Worked for me and my friends, worked for others in my school, and will work in this case, guaranteed.

guess now we know what happened to that malaysian aircraft.

You're OK in my book, no matter what sett ya kilt is.

i hear the beeb aren't going to have enough funding to publish the story, even if they wanted to.

Erickson, Bradshaw, Berne, and undoubtedly Freud.

*Trying to derail thread into gender war*

*Someones getting desperate!*

I disagree. Harm is not purely physical. Harm can be also pyschological. Harm doesn't have to be permanent, it can be temporary. If someone spits on you in the street and you go home and shower was no harm done? If someone deliberately makes your day miserable at work and you go home and later feel better was no harm done? In both cases harm was done, it was just not permanent and so you couldn't find a remedy in a court for that but its still harm.

2. Be respectful toward others at all times.

The purpose of the EVE Online forums is to provide a platform for exchange of ideas, and a venue for the discussion of EVE Online. Occasionally there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Forum users are expected to be courteous when disagreeing with others.

4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.22. Post constructively.

Negative feedback can be very useful to further improve EVE Online provided that it is presented in a civil and factual manner. All users are encouraged to honestly express their feelings regarding EVE Online and how it can be improved. Posts that are non-constructive, insulting or in breach of the rules will be deleted regardless of how valid the ideas behind them may be. Users are also reminded that posting with a lack of content also constitutes non-constructive posting.1ST OFFENCE GÇô WARNING
2ND OFFENCE GÇô 14 DAY SUSPENSION
3RD OFFENCE GÇô 30 DAY SUSPENSION
4TH OFFENCE GÇô 90 DAY SUSPENSION
5TH OFFENCE GÇô 180 DAY SUSPENSION
6+ OFFENCES GÇô 180 DAY SUSPENSION (OR PERMANENT BAN IF TRANSGRESSION IS SEVERE ENOUGH)

speaking of bans when were you allowed back

Ramona dear I caught Billy running around the thread with your underwear on his head. You go take care of that 'fore you get in trouble again. We'd miss you if you went on vacation!

spam

So, since the witch hunt has been outed as a witch hunt, what do we do now?

My thought is, we make a list. Since, thanks to Sohkar, it has been revealed that it's laughable to call it torture, and no harm was really done... then what we really have here is precisely what it looked like.

A textbook example of demagoguery, trying to whip up people into a lynch mob against someone, because you don't like something about them.

But since Ripard Teg is now the Fred Phelps of EVE, who are the rest of the Westboros? I say we start getting some names down. For our own mutual protection, of course.

Thoughts?

Except Sohkar himself has acknowledged his fault here.

Also, your example implies DIRECT THREAT OF LIFE. The real situation was polite nudging.

Why do I always come up in these things?

Person A is not Satan. I am.

Oops, might have answered my own question.

You know....

I would almost say I feel sorry for them....

But I don't.

Is pretty funny they flew through high sec in an interceptor trying to disseminate anarchy.

Definitly my last 2 cents here:

All, Ero et al. and Sakhor were violating all FIRST 4 rules of EvE's TOS, more or less. To argue "it was outside of the game" is sophistry.

I am looking forward to CCP's reaction on that.

Let's just say that after this is all over with I may be willing to sing songs and do silly things to win billions from total strangers.

Will you also willing to use mayo to cover and massage your body? I'm not gay, but maybe other people would enjoy to see this...

Oh... I'm sorry... the mayo massage supposed to be a silly thing not something erotic? Hmm.. then I lost my sense of humor as I really like to watch girls doing stuff like this. So I though a gay would love to see another man doing the same. Sorry.

And you have not answered my question: do you think you abuse the fact that your mark had a speech impediment in any way?

I want everyone to think about how they use race, religion, and sexual orientation in their everyday language usage. If you are honest with yourself, it might be eye opening.

http://strawpoll.me/1393800

I am curious to see how the EVE community actually feels about this, I will be trying to spread this throughout New Eden. I encourage others to do the same to help gather what players actually feel about this.

And I am well aware that even if many 'feel' upset, that doesn't make them right.

Both of us recognize that Eve's universe has a god

This is brilliant! Adding your recording to the time capsule is brilliant. It should let future generation of morons to know what happened to ******* idiots before The Dumbening

Wrong answer. You failed the GD Bonus Room.

Are we just trolling this thread now?

the European's get to work and immediately look to direct their hate somewhere.

pretty much

yet we still slag the French.

lol, emergent gamplay.....

I'm sure the :Moral High Ground: crew can keep this witch hunt alive. They are such a funny and peace loving bunch.

I will report you for accusing me of impersantion another Eve player and you will have your answer

Simple, E1 is a lair and has made random claims to things which he can not prove.

Also if he has done nothing wrong then why was he kicked / banned / forced to leave / leave of his own accord Widot.

If he has done nothing wrong why did the GSF, the group who are the best at scamming feel the need to get rid of E1 or disapprove to the extend that E1 felt he had to leave?

yep, that's what I've said and I have no problem if you want to report me on it.

To save you the trouble, I just did also.

I'm happy to be called wrong and to offer you an apology if so.

The anonymous nature of online gaming allows players to behave in this way with relative impunity, however just because you CAN do something does not mean that you SHOULD do it.

Hmm?

rather missing the point here arnt we

GÇ£Does CCP want goodness or the choice of goodness? Is a nerd who chooses to be bad perhaps in some way better than a carebear who has the good imposed upon him?GÇ¥
GÇòme, this ******** thread

But seriously, TS is not some magical removed from the world lawless wild west where you can do anything your sadistic little heart requires. All action carries responsibility and consequences.

See, thats exactly what I mean.

You've lost touch with reality a bit there. All of this exists and happens within the wider frame of reference of the real world.
If you can't distinguish where the boundaries of the game end, as a subset of that wider world, and the real world rules, you might want to spend a little time away from your PC for a change.

Ramona, I think the ultimate issue here is, some people just don't know how to separate Eve from anything else in life. Eve is their life, so the EULA/ToS binds all.

Send a message via e-mail mentioning EVE=falls under ToS.
Facebook post about EVE=still bound by EULA
Hop on TS and have an EVE convo=better follow those rules or they'll gitcha!

The concept of "I have left CCPs sphere of influence" utterly eludes them.

huh, I guess CCP doesn't care about goodness, but about cashflows.
(same as what initially was there in place of CCP)

Don't you just love it how all these Erotica alts and fan boys keep failing to mention how they made fun of his speech impediment.

Here's an alternative way to context this, since some have difficulty distinguishing where EVE ends and the outside world begins:

Think of the entirety of the EVE player population existing under one universal umbrella Corp/Alliance/Coalition called "Everyone".

A significant proportion of these players don't like what you are doing as a member of their/this Corp/Alliance/Coalition called "Everyone" that comprises the entirety of the community of this game.

By expressing their opinion, and taking various forms of actions that are open to them, they are effectively trying to AWOX you out of the Corp/Alliance/Coalition called "Everyone" that comprises the entirety of the community of this game.

They don't want you here in this Corp. They want you to gtfo and go to another Corp.

You can still be who you are, still play how you want, but you can go do it instead in another "Everyone" Corp, in another game and be their problem instead.

You can tell me whatever you want. The recording is there, people can make their own minds up. And to have the nerve of saying that they didn't do this.... yeah right, do pigs fly as well?

Also, it's always convenient to claim you had a speech impediment as well right? I couldn't care less if you did or didn't, it doesn't make this whole thing any less wrong then what it is.

I'm not even sure why I even bothered replying to you anyway, you have been a broken record with a weak argument for the last 20 pages now.

I don't like many of you at all

That actually goes to a pretty interesting and imo constructive and relevant side-line for this discussion to ultimately take.

Namely that of improving the game and its meta, to the ends of making it effectively possible for people to more directly take action against other players INGAME, rather than having to resort to this kind of indirect social awoxing to ostracise people they don't like, or people behaving in the game in ways they don't like, out of the game itself, because they have no direct capacity ingame (owing to the systems resctrictions) to do anything about it.

There have been a couple posters who have suggested something to this effect, and now I wish I had bookmarked them so I could reference them here.

However, there *has* to be a line in the sand somewhere.

I added a few lines to my previous post, just to elaborate a bit, if you care to review them.

Thats a tough question you ask. Considering the analogy of the entirety of EVE comprising a Corp, in which the majority wants a member gone, then yes, I would support the mechanism. Though it is then up to the people who can actually "push the button" to enact it as to whether that actually happens. Doesn't discount the members right to express that that is what they want though.

No changes iirc, just additional lines to articulate and elaborate on what was already there.

I don't know how to define "a significant proportion". I suppose that would depend on the perception of the actual entity with the power to enact what that proportion is lobbying for. In this case, it would constitute CCP as the one with the "buttan" (or translated as the Directors of this organisation) to do anything for, or against what a "significant proportion", depending on how THEY define that and perceive its significance, is expressing as their will as a part of that Corp/community.

Because at the end of the day EVE is a fictitious construct, involving real people. Your actions can always have real life consequences for the people you meet, intended or otherwise, and regardless of how you meet them. There is no difference between communicating with other EVE players, or picking up the phone and calling someone.

People seem to be caught up in the :sandbox: meme, yet EVE is emphatically not isolated from the rest of society.